Talk:Attack (enemy)
Spear or Arrow? Considering how the attack of the White Roundhead Tree works, I think we should call the spears arrows. They really are the same thing, but the name "arrows" indicates the graphical and physical affectors: the arrows of the Sniper.-- page/ '' 03:43, October 18, 2009 (UTC) Arrow was already taken by two other attacks. And they do look like spears. :This conversation ended in October 2009. Please refrain from posting in this conversation. --Yonder 18:45, July 19, 2010 (UTC) Ball attacks Things such as ball attacks should be separated into single balls, multiple balls, and should be subcategorized into 'direct' or 'launch,' indicating that when fired the ball either goes towards the ranger in a straigh line or an arc as seen by many of the ball attackers, such as the X's.--Sand master 21:11, 24 January 2009 (UTC) :Good idea. This is just scratch work, and is not fully developed. --Yonder 21:12, 24 January 2009 (UTC) We could try and form some sort of table...--Sand master 21:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC) We could, but how are we supposed to organize all this into table form? --Yonder 21:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC) IDK, the enemy species-head system worked well. I still think Happy and Neutral faces are not the same.--Sand master 21:29, 24 January 2009 (UTC) :Why do you need to split Smileys into 'sad' or 'happy' smileys? THis would just make names more longer and complicated. it is not needed, as we should simplify names as much as possible. --Yonder 21:42, 24 January 2009 (UTC) BTW aren't stone attacks considered multiple indirect ball attacks?--Sand master 21:32, 24 January 2009 (UTC) :No. Stone attacks are attacks from Xs and Stickmen, those stone-like things. Ball attacks are round, these are definitely not as round as ball attacks. This is why I need pictures for this! --Yonder 21:40, 24 January 2009 (UTC) :: Yonder, from what I see, stones from Xs are round too. They should be lumped together in the "ball" section. --bewnt 01:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC) I can't help you there. I'm busy with getting books.--Sand master 21:43, 24 January 2009 (UTC) Wow WHOA thanks a lot for compiling this page! Very nice job. --bewnt 01:13, 25 January 2009 (UTC) :Thank you, I tried to create a rough draft of it first and then leave it to you guys. --Yonder 22:56, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Enemy images I have uploaded all enemy attack images, but do not add them to the individual enemy pages yet. I will find the range of enemy attacks, and kill two birds with one stone. --bewnt 04:56, 25 January 2009 (UTC) EDIT: forget about it, it's impossible. When I walk close to a Blue X Walker, sometimes it shoots as far as 85px away, other times it only shoots at 65px. It's ridiculous. --bewnt 08:01, 25 January 2009 (UTC) I'm sure the information is either in future books or via cheat engine.--Sand master 16:12, 25 January 2009 (UTC) : Same goes for droprates, which we have been furiously (but in vain) trying to obtain information about since at least 1.0 versions ago. I guess that's our only hope of finding such info: books or cheat engines. And I really don't wish to use the latter. --bewnt 17:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Cheat engine doesn't necessarily mean we're cheating. It's for the sake o information.--(SANDMASTER) 17:31, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Attack Generalization? After seeing the Yellow Skull Fish and the Thundery Wheel Guy, and seeing their attacks as identical aside from a nearly-impossible-to-discern color, does every attack have a different viewed attribute, or is it just the darkness of the cave? Would we have to add the attacks of every enemy in the game??-- SandMaster ( ODBF, BSGF, Talk) 02:57, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :The attack type is still the same. Look at the pellet, it's colour range is large, so colour does not really matter. I (or better, we) group the attacks by their look, and then by their colour. --Yonder 15:34, 21 February 2009 (UTC) I know that already, but does this mean we need every attack listed for enemies or something?--(SM) : If I interpret your sentence correctly, I'd like all enemies to have their attacks listed. --bewnt 03:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC) Question Does the Priest's Aura of Defense lower the AT of Poison? I'm not so sure about it. --Yonder 22:18, 7 March 2009 (UTC) :Someone said that the fire and poison attacks are magical and can only be decrease with the Purple Crystal 1. Look at the talk page in the crystal compo items for details. 13:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, I already figured that out. Thanks anyway. --Yonder 20:24, 27 March 2009 (UTC) Classification of attacks I was thinking about the attacks since a few days. We have run into naming problems and problems with the classification. For example Grey Boss Roundhead Walker's attack was named "spear" by somebody, but it is basically something like the Triple Shot. I was thinking about we could try to describe every attack in the game with a small list of properties. I think maybe every attack (both character and enemy) can be described like the following: * An attack consists of a primary attack effect (or "part", or whatever) and sometimes a secondary attack effect. * One attack effect has one projectile image (from file "mag.gif"). Examples for attacks with secondary effect are: Grenade, Bazooka, Volcano (orb), Fire Arrow, Poison Arrow, Castle Boss fire pellets, Purple Boss Cap Mushroom, ... Examples for attacks only primary effect are: Castle Boss red two arrow, all other Bows, most enemy attacks ... Therefore we can describe an attack with a few enemy/character properties and the properties of primary and secondy effect. * '''enemy/character properties of the attack ** targeting range (range at which enemy/char starts shooting, note: that's not flying range of the projectile) ** shooting frequency (AGI min max) ** shooting type: in range/when hit ("when hit" for the mushrooms) ** shooting cost (well, ... Gunner) ** starting point: "attacker (related)" / "target (related)"" (usually "attacker". "attacker related" only for Thunder (orb) (= over the attackers head). "target" only for priests. "target related" only for Blizzard (orb) and Castle Boss' and Sub-Castle Boss' red two arrow attack (= over the targets head).) And each of the two attack effects (primary and secondary) has * attack effects properties ** Appearance *** projectile image (from file "mag.gif") *** colour *** size *** image rotates: yes/no (while flying) ** Basic stuff *** number of projectiles *** damage min-max values *** for multiple projectiles: **** release formation for multiple projectiles: clean arc / random ("clean arc" like most enemies and Triple Shot. "random" like Castle Boss fire pellet, Double Arrow, Triple Arrow, Quad Arrow, Oct Arrow, ... **** release time pattern of muliple projecties (usually "all at once" for nearly every attack, but for boxer there are the two punches, which form one attack and send out these sparks or needles. Or the volcano's secondary effect (the fires) gets thrown out one after the other.) ** Physics *** flying or moving projectile **** projectile speed **** flying range or appearance time (range or time the projectile travels, max travel distance) **** directional restriction ("no restriction" for most distant attacks, "down" for castle boss red two arros, "diagonal down right" for blizzard, ... ) **** gravity affected: yes/no ("no" means straight shot, like some of the underwater enemies) **** guided: yes (+length)/no **** pierce ground: yes/no **** pierce enemy/character: yes/no ("no" means: projectil will disappear on hit (like most pellets), "yes" means it goes through (like laser or fire)) **** roll on landscape: yes/no (like sparc glove and White Boss Smiley Walker, or even the secondary effect of Grenade) *** not moving projectile (do not move at all) **** appearance time **** directional restriction (usually "left or right" for most close combat attacks ... ) ** Specials *** cold effect: yes (+time+amount) / no *** freeze effect: yes (+time) / no *** poison effect: yes (+time+damage) / no For example: * The bazooka is a two-effects attack. The primary effect is 1 green bullet (rotating image), affected by gravity, not piercing anything. The secondary effect are the 4 very slow brown dust clouds (not rotating image, I think), piercing anything, not affected by gravity, released into random directions. * Purple Boss Cap Mushroom attack is also has two effects: Attack is triggered when hit. Primary is a green pellet, affected by gravity, not piercing anything, infinite range. Secondary are 5 (or 6) very slow green clouds, piercing anything, not affected by gravity, released into random directions, and which have poison. * Laser is one-effect attack, rotating image, not affected by gravity, piercing anything. * White Boss Smiley Fish has a one-effect attack, which has a rotating white one arrow image, not affected by gravity, guided, not piercing anything, released into random directions. --Justme2 14:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC) :Actually, I think all of the attacks from the enemies we have encountered lately were either tests or easter eggs. I think the latter is more likely, because of this: the spear attack resembles the Sniper with a Triple Shot-like attack. The mines resemble the Priest, the sparks resemble the Boxer, thunder resembles the Magician, and now the bullet resembles the Gunner. Simple. New Attack Type: Spawn? should this be considered an attack and be added to the list? -- page • talk 17:09, October 30, 2009 (UTC) :definitely. otherwise they would be just trees... =)--Majorlee 17:14, October 30, 2009 (UTC) Freeze? I personaly think --not that you are wrong --that what you are calling freze type is just a homing mine. also, most eels shoot mines w/ 1 exception. Karoo Concentrated Fire The name needs to change. Not only does it include another attack's name in its name but it also probably won't apply for every form it may appear in. This is the same thing as many of the magicians attacks. Maybe magic would be a good name? For now I have changed the name to magic missle, but if anyine has a better idea please tell me. (Unsigned) Magic? Then why? Fire is already good enough. -- Logo123 on 16:39, October 24, 2012 (UTC) Smoke and Heat There is multiple enemies that create a smoke residue, but there is no smoke attack. First we need to find out if smoke iss in fact heat and if so then we add them to indirect heat attacks, and if not then we create a smoke section. Wave The wave attack doesn't look like a wave. I organised a vote on it. The choices are wave or sound. Wave *'Wave':Sound is a form of waves. Ganondox 20:15, January 7, 2011 (UTC) *'Wave':As with the whole Eel vs. Seasnake discussion, I see little reason for unnecessary modification of the attack name. I see no risk of confusion also... people would be more confused if the familiar name "wave" was suddenly changed to "sound". [[User:Waddle D33|'Wad']][[User Talk: Waddle D33|'dle']] 22:23, January 7, 2011 (UTC) *'Wave':I agree with Ganondox and Waddle, and besides, it looks like a wave. -- ''page/ '' 21:30, January 20, 2011 (UTC) Sound *'Sound':They dont look a wave.I also thought that it was a water wave. Have risk to confuse.The poisoner00:27, January 4, 2011 (UTC) Heat and Poison the Same? I think the Poison and Heat attacks are the same attack, but just with a different color and attribute. I think we should just combine the two into an attack called mist and just note the attribute of each enemies specific attack.-- ''page/ '' 21:30, January 20, 2011 (UTC) I disagree, because they have different effects. And it is probably not necessary. 23:03, February 19, 2011 (UTC) I agree, as we have been seeing recently that magic effects and attack appearence do no correlate, and poison and heat are the same shape. Ganondox 22:30, August 10, 2011 (UTC) A few years late to the party, but as far as I'm concerned, same base image = same attack. The only difference is indeed, the color and attribute of the attack. So I agree. "Gas" would probably be better though- fiery, painful-hot mist anyone? Or burning gas that burns you, toxic gas that'll poison you if you inhale it? 'RadiantDarkBlaze (talk) 21:05, April 13, 2014 (UTC) Ball and pellet same? It the same, just the ball is more big.The poisoner 21:39, February 19, 2011 (UTC) BUT usually large enemies use large projectiles, and the Castle Boss releases small projectiles. 00:03, February 20, 2011 (UTC) Useless renaming? I was thinking about the Bolt attack for a while, and I was wondering if we could name it "Ember". Again, it could be useless, but then again, it is your choice.... 05:12, July 12, 2011 (UTC) The new name suits the attack of the Red Big Diamond Spider and the Blue Box Fish. However, I have to doubt for the one in the case of the Green Vampire tree. Let's see the opinions of others. Ivan247Talk Page 14:38, July 12, 2011 (UTC) Ember is asocciated with fire. This attack is not always associated with fire and looks nothing like an ember. Its doesn't really look like a bolt, but its what fits the best. Maybe blast insead? Ganondox 22:31, August 10, 2011 (UTC) Revolution of enemy attack names? Personally, I feel that the current system of naming of enemy attacks are a bit messy, so I'd suggest some regrouping of attacks with similar shape. Ball and Pellet just because of size difference? Dividing an attack of one shape into two just because they have different types? All those are unnecessary in my opinion. Also, for the Freeze attack, it was referred as freezing "mines". Now we got the White Big X Walker which shoots them in a high arch and the reference was broken. What if another enemy uses the same attack, but actually SLOWS instead of freezes? This is the reason I'm proposing the following changes. Discuss. *Combine Ball and Pellet into Pellet or Ball. *Combine Poison and Heat into Gas (or other names, please specify). *Change the name of Freeze into Flake (or other names, please specify). Also, for the attack properties, I'd suggest a change in the way of showing them. instead of using a sentence, a single word phrase (like bouncing, type Fire, homing, piercing), in which its meaning described at the top of the page is used. This will also reduce the length of this article. Ivan247Talk Page 12:21, June 8, 2012 (UTC) Bump. Ivan247Talk Page 07:48, June 27, 2012 (UTC) : Sounds like a plan. In addition, you can make a table and creating "marks" on them for the attributes split into two seperate categories: Elements and Properties. For example: : It doesn't look good, I know, but you get the idea. 20:06, June 27, 2012 (UTC) ::P.S. Further economized it. 13:31, July 1, 2012 (UTC) Wow, that's an interesting idea. I think we should add the AT into the table, just for reference. 15:46, July 1, 2012 (UTC) :Your ideas are pretty good, although I'm a bit aware about the effect of the table on the page length. So I guess it will be time to move on the renaming of attacks. I mostly want to change the name of the freeze attack because I feel there will be an enemy using it to SLOW characters. We already have weapons like Ice Circle and Ice Orb which do so. Ivan247Talk Page 16:00, July 1, 2012 (UTC) Bump again. Ivan247Talk Page 08:08, July 13, 2012 (UTC) Oh man.... I just thunk of a MAJOR (no not major, but MAJOR) idea to basically end the whole enemy attack image scheme. Why don't we upload a "transparent" image with differing transparencies (look up Metawalker) and put that on a "table" with differing image background color and let the palette fixate itself (look up that part of the Fanball sandbox). Thus, we would save a lot of coloring errors, and hundreds of images will become just a few dozen. What is worrisome about it, however, is that the border that will be left will be at the same color (and the palette won't exactly match to what appears in Stick Ranger). But for the underwater attacks, a "submerged" version will be uploaded alongside with it. This is just an idea, not a plan. But if I happen to be that enthusiastic about last section's topic, I would develop that out on the notebook at a steady rate (traditional ftw). 18:42, September 20, 2013 (UTC) Revolution 2; Electric Boogaloo So I was working on the Necromancer class back in the FB Wiki, and since its attacks are all based on the enemy projectiles and all of its properties, this could be handy for a table. The planned structure is mostly complete, as there are some mixed attributes. Now I know that you (Ivan) wanted to rename those projectiles based off of the mag.gif image from ranger.jar (if this was your original plan), but RDB kind of insisted that I'd begin here and let him work on the Necromancy article quite a bit. I'm aware that there are actually two pellet bases that could very well be combined, and the AT would probably be not included as it is a list first and foremost. Nonetheless, I'd like to hear your opinion of this, and probably some additions/deletions of attributes. 03:10, July 29, 2014 (UTC) Basically all of the attributes can be kept. (homing range is available from source code, everything elst can be easily tested through experiment/normal playthroughs) I'm more concerned about the page length after adding all the tables. (The page is already 19.5KB and will probably increase with all the table codes) I think we probably need to split the page into several pages for each individual attack type if we are really using the tables. Ivan247Talk Page 04:47, July 29, 2014 (UTC) :Alright then. Planned structure (almost similar to the Necromancy chart with a few alterations to match the table in the prequel section). Of course subject to change: Separate pages? No problem, but if the need arises, they can all be merged into one page, but see for yourself, Mr. Admin. 11:02, July 29, 2014 (UTC)